List 3 (1790-1865)

Indication of Vessels in, or Voyaging to, Hudson Bay and Strait, Including Journeys into Ungava Bay, Foxe Basin, and James Bay (1790-1865)

Continued from Ship List 2

Reminder note: The symbol ‘↔’ indicates a round trip, completed that year. The numbers in the final column are indexed to the Sources for Ship List 3. The symbol ‘▪’ indicates ship’s log is available HBCA (Hudson’s Bay Company Archives); the symbol ‘*’ indicates vessel is listed in HBCA “Book of Ships Movements.”

Table 31

31 ______________________________________________________

Table 32

32 ______________________________________________________

Table 33

33 ______________________________________________________

Table 34

34 ______________________________________________________

Table 35

35 ______________________________________________________

Table 36

36 ______________________________________________________

Table 37

37

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Table 38

38

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Table 39

39

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Table 40

40

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Table 41

41

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Table 42

42

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Table 43

43

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Table 44

44

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Table 45

45

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Table 46

46

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Table 47

47

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Table 48

48

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Table 49

49

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Table 5050

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Continued in Ship List 4 (1865-1909) ______________________________________________________________

Proof-reading and up-dating will be on-going. I welcome any suggestions for corrections or for additional information.

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17 Responses to List 3 (1790-1865)

  1. David says:

    Thank you for posting these records. You have helped me uncover some, for me, very significant information. Thank you.

  2. David says:

    In Table 49 it is recorded that the HBC barque, Prince of Wales, experienced an incident on Mansel Island. I am doing character and event research for a book set in that era. One of my major protagonists arrived in the New World aboard that 1864 sailing.

    I did not know about the incident until I read your chart. I have scoured the web since finding this fact but am not finding any results that shed any light. Do you know anything more about this, &/or do you have any further data in your site???

    Respectfully,
    David

  3. David says:

    Hi again, in my hurry haste I failed to probe deeper into your blog. After I left the last message I clicked around and found links to “Beaver” and one thing leads to another so I now am preparing to order the ship’s logs. I still invite any and all information available regarding the Prince of Wales II, its peoples and its actions, particularly during the years 1863-64, 1867 and 1883.

  4. hallnjean says:

    Have fun with the logs, you never know what little gem of info might be found in amongst all those annotations of wind weather and sails.

    As the story told by Cotter, “The Ship Prince of Wales,” Beaver (1934) http://www.historysociety.ca/media/pdf/13-4-934-Mar-p42-44.pdf indicates, the incident on Mansel Island has excited a fair amount of interest.

    One of the more thoughtful footnotes about the incident is found in Howard A. Fleming, Canada’s Arctic Outlet (1957), p. 101-102, part of which is viewable via Google Books, though unfortunately page 102 is missing.

    One article that looks promising but I haven’t read is William Barr’s, “Shipwrecked on Mansel Island, Hudson Bay: Dr Henry Brietzcke’s Arctic health cruise, 1864,” Polar Record (1992) [available from Cambridge Journals (for a price, unless you are lucky enough to have access, perhaps through a library)]. Barr’s articles are usually very informative, and no doubt there are some excellent references listed in the footnotes.

    I look forward to one day finding out about the mystery protagonist in the book you’re working on 🙂

  5. Jennifer says:

    What a fascinating site, thankyou.

    My ancestor (as below from the HBC records) came to Fort York on Prince Rupert , Captain: John Grave, starting service with HBC on 16 May 1836. Not sure if this is the date he left England or the date he arrived at Fort York.

    His wife appears to have travelled with him, was this ususal do you know? Is it possible to get the Ship’s log for this date?

    NAME: OTCHIN, John PARISH: Holbeach, Lincoln
    ENTERED SERVICE: 16 May 1836 DATES: Appointments & Service Outfit Year* Position Post District HBCA Reference *An Outfit year ran from 1 June to 31 May 1836
    Came to York Factory with wife on Prince Rupert C.1/929
    1836-1839 Farm Servant Experimental Farm Red River B.239/u/1 #1529; B.239/g/16 – 18
    1839-1840 Farm Servant Ft. Vancouver Columbia B.239/g/19 General Charges 1840-1841 Middleman Ft. Langley Columbia B.239/g/20 1841 Farm Servant Ft. Langley Columbia B.239/g/21 1841 Settled at Nisqually B.239/g/21
    Wife: Mary Cl/929 fo. 2, #7

    If you could point me in the right direction to find the log I would be grateful

    Regards Jennifer

    • hallnjean says:

      The ship’s record you are looking for is listed in the info you supplied: all Hudson’s Bay Company Archive documents with a reference code beginning with a “C” are ships’ records. You note that he “Came to York Factory with wife on Prince Rupert C.1/929”. That means that “C.1/929” is the log of the Prince Rupert that year. The additional note “Wife: Mary C1/929 fo. 2, #7,” means that Mary is mentioned in the log, at folio 2 (folio roughly equates to a page), number 7 (probably 7th person in a list of passengers). How utterly great is that? The ship’s log will be hard to read without taking time to sift through and decipher a mass of weird seafaring terminology, but it should be interesting. The HBCo. usually only kept ships’ logs when something affecting business in a negative way took place: the ship hit an iceberg, or rough seas, or got lost or such-like.

      You can visit the HBC Archives and read the log, or order microfilm through a library, or, I think, order a photocopy of the log. Visit the HBC Archives online at http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca/ for additional info on how to proceed. Especially http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/copy_services/index.html for info on copies.

      Info on searching logs is at http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca/resource/ship_rec/index.html

      Hope that helps,
      Norma

    • hallnjean says:

      Oh, and I got so excited, I forgot to say hi — Nice to meet you Jennifer!
      And, yes, by 1836 women were travelling back and forth to Hudson Bay — though your Mary was part of a select group sent out to run a farm and prove what a great place Red River was to migrate to. And the month of May was when they left a British port — it was impossible to get into Hudson Strait before June because of the ice. They would have arrived in the Bay probably late July or early August (unless there was a problem).
      N.

      • Jennifer says:

        Thank you so much for all that information, I really appreciate it.
        The HBC records are amazing.
        I believe we have records also in the National Archives here in London.
        I found a marriage for the Captain of Prince Rupert (John Costellow Grave) in London in Dec 1835. Also his death in 1857 in London.

        I did wonder if the May 1836 date was when they actually set off rather than when they arrived.

        On line I found a book called ‘ The Governor and Company of Adventurers of England Trading into Hudson’s Bay during two hundred and fifty years, 1670-1920’ which I am reading and also on Google books one about ‘Undelivered Letters’ to men on HBC ships. These letters were discovered in London I think in the 1970’s and make for fasinating reading.

        This is all just for my own interest as Thomas is by far the most interesting ancestor I have! The story was that he took the name of the Otchin man and went in his place (his real name was Thomas Knight Lawson). I have been please to prove thta this was right.

        Just for your interest :
        Hines, H. K. “An Illustrated History of the State of Oregon.” Chicago: Lewis
        Pub. Co. 1893. p. 900.

        THOMAS OTCHIN

        a worthy citizen of Washington county, Oregon, is one of the very few men
        who are left of the brave pioneers who came to Oregon in 1839.
        Mr. Otchin was born in Lincolnshire, England, November 17, 1814. His
        parents were William and Mary (Knight) Otchin, natives of England and of old
        English ancestry. They were members of the Church of England, and his father
        was a farm laborer. Thomas was the fifth of their family of nine children. He
        was reared and educated in his native land, and was there married to Miss Mary
        Beck. In 1836 he entered the employ of the Hudson’s Bay Company, and brought
        his young wife to America, and landed at York Fort on the Hudson’s Bay. Then he
        went to the Red river country, walking with snowshoes and drawing the sled on
        which were his supplies. He farmed in the Red river country two years. In 1839
        he came to Fort Vancouver. From her he went to the Fraser river and was in the
        dairy business for the Hudson’s Bay Company, two years. In 1841 he took a
        donation claim on the sound, and farmed near where Olympia now is. After
        remaining there a year, he came in 1842 to the Tualitin valley and took up 640
        acres, the donation claim on which he now resides. He traded with the Indians
        for supplies, went to the Hudson’s Bay Company at Fort Vancouver for flour and
        wheat, and here he resided until the gold excitement in California, in 1848,
        when he went to the mines. At Mormon island he dug about $3,000 worth of the
        yellow dust, and returned to Oregon with about half of it. Since then he has
        resided on his ranch, living the life of a prosperous and upright farmer.
        Two children were born to him and his wife east of the mountains, both of
        whom are deceased; and his faithful companion who had been with him in all his
        pioneer wanderings, and had shared all his privations and dangers as well as his
        later prosperity, died February 1, 1879.
        In 1858, Mr. Otchin returned to England to visit his relatives and the
        scenes of his childhood, and while he was there his sister died, leaving a
        daughter, Miss Mary A. Simpson, who in October, 1881, came to Oregon. On his
        return to this State Mr. Otchin brought with him his wife’s sister, who survived
        her arrival in this country but three years. For eleven years his niece has
        been to him all that an affectionate daughter could be, and is now his
        housekeeper. It may here be stated that Hon. Thomas Tongue of Hillsborough,
        this county, is a nephew of Mr. Otchin. Mr. Otchin has built a nice residence
        on his farm, and here he is spending the evening of an active and useful life,
        respected and beloved by all who know him. He is an intelligent and
        well-informed man, is in politics a Republican, and is a fair representative of
        the first settlers of Oregon.

        I managed to get copies of his land claim in Oregon, so now hoping to get the ships’s log

        Thanks again, will keep your site in my favourites,
        Regards Jennifer

    • Donald S Guenther says:

      Jennifer my GGG grandparents William Baldero and wife Maria were on this ship too. I’d sure like to get in touch with you. William Baldra (Baldero) and wife also took part in the 1839 trip to Ft. Vancouver and lived in Oregon. Our ancestors must have been good friends.

  6. Iain Turner says:

    Hi, Im looking for info about the source list #694, I have a relative who was on board (William Scott) I know he was on this ship as it states it on his sons orphanage record. I’ve found a few clippings on line about “The Tragedy of the Kitty” but nothing solid. I’ve found a few names (Alexander Ellis, William Armstrong, Banjamin Groom, Martin Munson) but no actual crew list. It would be great to find some sort of official record. Would anything exist? Any help would be fantatstic and what info I have found I’ll gladly share!

    Yours Hopefully, Iain

    • hallnjean says:

      Hi Ian,

      The sources I consulted for info about the Kitty were the Hudson’s Bay Archives’ Search File for Ships (in which she is listed — I don’t think they have a log for her but it is worth checking online at http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca/resource/ship_rec/index.html ); Alan Cooke and Clive Holland’s book, The Exploration of Northern Canada, 500 to 1920: A Chronology (Toronto: Arctic History Press, 1978), which mentions her on page 215; and William Wakeham’s “Report of the Expedition to Hudson Bay and Cumberland Gulf in the Steamship ‘Diana’ under the Command of William Wakeham, Marine and Fisheries Canada in the year 1897” (Ottawa: S.E. Dawson, Printer to the Queen’s Most Excellent Majesty, 1898), page 44, which related the story of the wreck, the killing of crew members, and subsequent ‘hauntings’. You can read it at http://scaa.usask.ca/gallery/northern/image.php?ID=18864&metadata=brief&part=70&imagesize=large&ImageStartPage=&ImageEndPage=&css=&ln=&ap=&exhibit_path=

      Happy researching — I’ll update my info on Kitty on the “Sources for Ship List 3” page if I come across anything more, and would be happy to add any info you care to share to this site

      Norma

      • Iain Turner says:

        Thanks so much for the quick reply. I’ve read a few stories about this one but nothing about a haunting! Very interesting! I’m not sure that much of my info would top yours but we’re pretty sure “William Scott” was one of the murdered Seamen. The actual record in the orphanage is “Father murdered by native Indians in the Davis Straits, from the wrecked Kitty of Newcastle in the fall of 1859”. We know little about him so something with his record would be gold dust! He was born around 1815, possibly in the South Shields area of Northumberland, England. The sad thing was his only son (Walter) was born also in 1859 so he probably never saw his son…

        Keep in touch, thanks, Iain

      • hallnjean says:

        Hi Iain,
        I came across some articles in the local Red River Settlement newspaper of 1860 about the Kitty (which I think you have probably already read versions of), so decided to give the ship a page of its own, with transcriptions of the articles and links to them, and will continue to add to more info as I find it. I’ve included a note with your info on William Scott there as well — hope that’s ok with you.

        Regards,
        Norma

  7. Iain says:

    Thanks Norma!

    We still search for details of the ship from time to time, but it seems like a dead end as far as a crew list is concerned! Whilst we have little info on William Scott, we have managed to gather a bit of genealogy on William Armstrong and Alexander Ellis, if its any use to you, let me know. Also discovered Benjamin Groom may have been born in Lyne, Denmark, in 1834. It’s great that you’re keeping the story of a family member alive!

    Iain

  8. Donald S Guenther says:

    I sincerely hope you can help me find the passenger list for this ship please. William Boldero and his wife Maria are my GGG Grandparents.

    Ship’s log, Prince Rupert IV (C.1/929, fo. 2): William Boldero + wife Maria listed as passengers from Gravesend (England) to York Factory, July 1836

    Don Guenther

  9. Mike Smith says:

    Thanks very much for this. I had hit a brick wall with my family tree. I knew my g-g-g-grandparents were Chelsea pensioners and that they had come over with Caldwell. Your list gave me the ship, the General Palmer (Table 45), which was the missing piece. From there I was able to find the Surgeon’s log of the journey which included a summary of people on the ship, where and when it departed, and the fact that my g-g-g-grandmother had a miscarriage during the voyage.

    Mike Smith

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